Keep building

My apologies, I meant detved

Your lifeline was replaced with another one. But by all means, fight for what you feel is worth fighting for, or against.

For now I am going with the flow, give them some time to adjust and see what they come up with.

Good luck!

If you say so,
Seems like no ones opinion matters except the Big Boi Upstairs. He hasn’t even been around the community in a long while. Shit’s way to risky imho. The only reason I was comfortable investing in the platform was because I had a say in what goes on. The promise was that, the say I had and the say that the community had would expand. However recent events over these past months took all of those rights away from the community. You know, after they poured their hearts, souls, and money into the platform and used it as their main finance platform.

I don’t know how you can look at whats happening as a community member and justify the actions that took place here. The community was taken advantage of and discarded.

Replace Builder Rewards: A bust (just remove it instead)
Voting and Governance: A Bust
Requesting Transparency with Financial Information to make sure our funds aren’t at risk: A Bust
Having a Proper Support Team: A Bust

All the promises the Growth Team made to the community: Poof, Thin Air
I wonder how the BTC lottery for quest is going to be done.

The fact that Incognito is comfortable doing this to the community is why they aren’t currently trustworthy. Treats the community like they do and expects people to keep building and stay, that’s a joke.

A majority of everyone who has money in Incognito, there financial future is literally controlled by a dude they don’t even know and who doesn’t seem to care about them. Not to mention they are seemingly in control of more then 70% of the current circulating supply of PRV and probably the private keys to all the trusted bridges. If that doesn’t scare you, well, keep on doing what your doing.

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I would use the same arguments to state the opposite, but like I said, I was here before there was money to be made, when privacy was the main goal and profit was said to be a longterm thing. That guy was very present, and eager to hear about whatever people brought to the table that could push the project forward, improve it.

That guy, also said then “If you’d ask me is Incognito a good project to earn a quick buck, I would say no, better find another project. However if you value privacy, stick around, it will be very profitable in the future”.

Then he took a sabbatical year and left the company in the team’s hands. How is that for trust?

I have no info on what happened on his return, but it seems that building a solid product before marketing it was more appealing to him than market a project in progress giving new users a bad experience.

Where you say they don’t care about the community I would say they put the community first at the moment. How many times have people argued about decentralizing, about security and so on. That is exactly what is being focused on now.

The future of Incognito has never been brighter.

(why support had to go beats me, maybe that gets cleared in the future, maybe not)

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Financial safety is not equivalent to generating money. Why do you think a majority of us are here, to make profit? There are far better opportunities to make profit currently. Incognito is a privacy platform! Asking for financial safety means that the money I put in isn’t going to disappear. Currently there is no guarantee to that, and there is no effort to make a guarantee, or even be transparent about the possibilities. In fact right now it’s at an all time high for riskiness.

What do you think the motives were behind the push for decentralization? Maybe it’s because the community lacked a guaranteed say for what goes on in the platform. If the platform grew any bigger it would have been a target and the single point of failure is it’s centralization. Removing the rights of the community when they are responsible for a large majority of all the money inside the platform is just unintelligent. Saying that they are putting the community first currently is grossly dishonest. No attempts of assurances are even remotely being considered, and it won’t be for another 3-6 months.

I’d also like to mention you can say all you want about how Incognito is listening to the community now, and decentralizing. But that is absolutely not true.

It’s quite simple, it’s his decision and not the communities. He hasn’t been around this past year to know what the community wanted.

Legit left, comes back, fires everybody who built the community around Incognito because they “did too good of a job” and leaves the community to the dust after they put 40Mill into liquidity. Yeah, and no one should be scared of a rug pull or be concerned whats happening with the platform.

Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds when you look at the facts from the communities perspective?

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No, not really. I think we can agree to disagree. No need to keep going back and forth. I am too busy setting up vNodes anyway. Whether you stay or leave I wish you the best.

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From an outsider perspective, I just wanna say I’m glad you guys are having this discussion @detved @Revolve @Jamie. It may seem heated at points, but that just shows me that you guys all have strong ties to this project and genuinely want the best for it long term. That’s encouraging to me.

My main concern is that you guys are the only ones talking, and there clearly are issues. Two I personally have questions about are:

1)As a consumer-level individual, what currently is in place to make me feel safe investing, or at least trusting that PRV is actually worth it’s current value? There’s probably a lot to unpack there, but please- if you can, ELI5.
2) Once that issue is resolved in my head- the focus of this thread is to keep building Incognito. I see the anticipated roadmap posted in a different thread, but what can I, as an average user, start to get excited about in the future of this project? Would love to hear what devs have going, and more especially what community builders are excited to promote.

Thanks in advance for whoever can answer all that, and for all of you keeping this project moving.

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As you have probably guessed, this is my major concern right now, and is the reason for me making all this noise. At it’s current state, I personally don’t believe the risk associated with the platform is currently factored into the price of PRV.

  • The price of PRV is determined by liquidity. People have to pair the coins they put in with PRV into the DEX. Provide allows one sided providing, but still utilizes the same system. PRV is just taken from nodes ran by the core team. The PRV funding these nodes are from users who Provide PRV. Provide is closed source, so we can not see the code.

My Issue

  • The Core Team currently controls way more than 70% of all the PRV in circulation. Most of this PRV is from block earnings that go directly to the DAO. Currently the information in regards to the DAO and the transactions that they make are not public. We also don’t know who has the ability to authorize DAO transactions. The process is assumed to be manual because we have no information, and the Core Team does not currently want to provide this information for whatever reason. Keep in mind, this has been going on for months.

The Concern

  • These DAO funds can be liquidated removing all the crypto funds from the pDEX leaving worthless PRV. This is the current risk, and we don’t have any information or assurances proving otherwise.

The amount of PRV that a consumer-level individual has, is such a small insignificant fraction of the total amount of PRV currently available. The total amount of PRV in the pDEX is similarly minuscule. The current price of PRV only factors in the volume of that small fraction.

If you can Trust that the Core Team will not liquidate large quantities of PRV, then you should be fine. However at this current moment with the circumstances that exist, I would not. I have been here for a long ass time and dedicated a lot of effort into the platform. I have always pushed for Transparency, Decentralization, and Community Involvement. We have progressed over these many months to include all 3 of those things, however, in these past few months, Incognito has managed to sacrifice all of them in favor of development for decentralization. Don’t get me wrong, decentralization is important, but after seeing the consistency of the Core Team giving false promises time after time again, my Trust in them has only been going downwards. Removing the “Growth Team” without community say was the last straw. Transparency is the only thing that would make me want to stay, and that is what I am asking from them here. There is no reason for them not to want the same thing.

Most bridges are also centralized with closed source software. So you are Trusting the Core Team to be custodians of the crypto that you shield. So, again the pVersions of your coins are only backed 1:1 if you trust in what the Core Team says. There is currently no way to prove otherwise.

Some Extra Context:
The Core Team is based in Vietnam, which has no extradition order to the US. Take this information as you will. I only mention this information, because of the current circumstance, I think it’s important to understand the full picture.

With the current roadmap, we are looking at Decentralization of the platform within the next 3-6 months. Meaning we can grow without the concern of having the potential for “government” take down. This is necessary and exciting if it can be pulled off. Then hopefully we can actually focus on the DAO structure and give the community a say. However, I would much prefer the community to have a say now, and not have to wait 3-6 months as I believe the price of PRV will suffer drastically and a lot of people will lose their money because of poor choices made by the ‘founder’. Playing with peoples money is not right, nor is it in the best interest of the community, or the platform. However, that is opinion.

Unfortunately Community building has not progressed much since Builder Rewards got removed. There was a promise to replace it with a newer better system, however that didn’t happen.

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Great response, truly appreciated.

Such a mixed picture, tho. Think I’m gunna roll the dice, stick around, and hope everyone advocating for what’s best is heard.

Incredible how just a little communication from “The Founder” or any core team members could ease this tension…

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After being around Incognito for a long while, I can almost guarantee nothing happens in that regard unless the price of PRV drops significantly enough.

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Hey @Revolve bro…I can attest how long you have been around here and well I have been here since last April and seen the ups and downs here at Incognito as well…everything you have stated is valid and true and likewise, you have contributed greatly to this community and the platform…I agree with you on the points you make especially the one about the loss of the growth team and the lack of DAO not being in the communities hands…now that being said it seems that we be in the minority as to those stated positions…so what we are left with is to either stick out for now or one can always pull one’s fiat and crypto out and yet still stick by the community or one can do as some have done as we both know and just totally left the community and the platform…I for one am sticking by for now but have taken measures to safeguard my monies…I do not wish you to leave and hope you are not…I value your input here as I do your friendship…but yea we be brothers in arms when it comes to the issues you raise with Incognito…now that all having been said…I have to confess I crazy adore @Jamie though she takes a sort of counterpoint to your position…it is kind of humorous in a way to see the bank and forth between you both in this string…and well yes I love this community and the platform and do hope and pray it works out in the end… :sunglasses:

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My friend, trust me when I say this, we are not the minority. We just have no say. 90% of the community would want the information that I requested. Most people agree with my statements. It’s not like I threw all this out there without talking to community members first.

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I doubt 90% agrees with you.
The thing you don’t seem to want to understand is that there has been a hunger for more information, transparency from the start. There are people who say the information provided is too technical, there are people who say the information provided is not transparent, technical enough.

You make it sound like this lack of information or whatever is something new, something that completely changes how the system works, something that completely changes the risk because support was moved from support team to devs. That is just not true.

By scaring new people away with the fudding, you do not only harm the project a bit, but also take away people’s chance to be part of the project at this early stage and profit from that in the end.

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I have said is the exact opposite. I have said this issues has been going on since I joined. It’s more of a problem now because of the current circumstances and the lack of care for the community. It’s more worrisome now because the intentions of the founder are unknown to the community. It’s more of an issue now because all the promises that were made to the community have fell through. Where’s the Trust, and where is the accountability. Pair that with the knowledge that funds are not proven to be safe, and the community has been asking for that for over a year, lmao yeah, nothing has changed.

No they don’t. You can’t make something too technical. Marketing material and advertisements are different from whitepapers. The more technical you are the better in this situation. Being too technical is not a negative, it’s a compliment. It increases your transparency and trustworthiness. Don’t give me that BS.

When people put money into a bank, they have federal assurances and that is above the already defined legal entity accountability. You can’t tell me people who use the platform wouldn’t wan’t assurances of accountability, that they have the ability to withdraw without the risk of losing everything. Ask any community member on the forums if they prefer not having that vs having that.

In my opinion, I am displaying the risks properly to the people so that the Team can do something about it. The information provided has been compiled and gathered from being here for over a year. No new person has access to all this information because of how scattered and intentionally vague the Team has been about this stuff. People care about privacy, and I am letting them know the risk is at an all time high for participating in the network. That’s not really an opinion either. Listing out the facts of recent events without commenting, kind of show that. You can say FUD all you want, but I haven’t said an untrue statement throughout all these posts. I care about Incognito and that is why I say all these things. I don’t believe the platform will last without these changes and I don’t want people to lose all their money because of dumb ass decisions “the founder” is making. Sue me.

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bla, bla, bla, fud, fud, fud. I am out.

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I came to these forums looking for the same answers, or at least validation in investing here.

Finding the opposite, and attacking calls for accountability as spreading fear and uncertainty is equally ironic and terrifying.

I appreciate you taking hits for asking the real questions. Hope some day to find this project in much better shape.

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@Jamie…you know I adore you and have always admired and respected your posts here at the forum…but at this point responding to @Revolve’s very valid points and calling them out as fudding is wrong and you know it…stop antagonizing him…I know you are a respectful and learned person especially when it comes to this community, as a matter of fact, your knowledge of not just Incognito but the crypto-verse, in general, is extensive, and therefore I have admired your posts in the past but this back and forth with Revolve is not serving a useful purpose and it is only serving to antagonize him…please stop…I ask you as a friend…thank you…Tempestblack… :sunglasses:

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I strongly feel there needs to be a counterweight (if that is a word) for what he is claiming.

The original poster started this topic with good intentions, listing the worries, acknowledging the sentiment, and his vision and hopes for project in the days to come.

Revolve, and I know he is not a bad actor, took over stating over and over that things are going the wrong way, that the project is falling down, that the project is too centralized to be trusted and so on.

His information is false. It is not 90% of the community who wants to interfere with how the project is run. Most people just want an environment in which they can trade and send crypto safely. Maybe even more trade than send.

It is not 90% of the community who wants governance to be a thing. Some may not even understand what it involves. If everyone was as involved with how the project is run, and how things are been taking care of, do you really think there would have been a need in the past for Ducky and others to post over and over again to request to vote for builders, to vote for community members who had been helpful. Governance is very low on my agenda. A solid, more decentralized and still secure network is at the top.

Apart from that, you could also conclude Revolve made his point and can let go. But that is not happening either. Even on Telegram people are telling him “we got it, can you shut up now”.

What is the use of being negative about the project to new people who are just trying to get info on what it is about? That is what happened on Telegram.

The strength of the project, at this point, is with the team, the developers, they need to build it. Let them build, give them time to adjust.

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Your very much twisting my words. I specifically said,

Given a choice, anybody in their right mind would prefer knowing that their value is safe vs having ambiguity and not knowing. Especially large holders. That’s something I can prove.

Evidence

Screenshot 2021-04-22 2.21.23 PM

this seems like a bad faith argument, 2 people (3 max) on the TG called what I was saying FUD… One of those people were you. Other then that, the comments I make on the TG are usually just answers to questions people have. If they ask about what’s going on of course I will let them know. It’s not like I go out of my way to cause chaos.

People have been asking about what’s going on, why did the team get fired? They have questions and have no one to answer them. These questions are the only questions I have responded to about the current situation and that is the truth.

Quote one false statement I made. I would like to know what I said that was false.

I agree, and I made my statement on why it would be difficult for builders to want to build for the platform. You disagreed and we had a discussion about it. I’m not quite sure what your implying here.

I’d like to mention that most people believe that the platform was decentralized already, as that is how it was advertised for a long time. I’d also like to mention that most people think it’s a community project because that is how it was advertised. Both those things are wrong, and your telling me it’s wrong to let them know, especially now when it is the most important time. People are asking questions.

It’s clear your intentions are not to improve the platform, just damage control. I think if you wanted improvement you would push the team to be transparent and release the needed information (This scenario wouldn’t currently exist if this happened). However my requests which a lot of people agree with and have been pushing for (for way over a month btw) have been not only ignored by the current team, but called FUD. That’s not progress, that promotes fracturing and in-fighting. That to me seems like it doesn’t want to be fixed.

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if they let go of half that prv, what do they get out of it?

and if they were to dump it all would incognito be usable? to shield and trade and prv just be worthless?