ROI Stats on Different ways of Staking

I am not good at math, and for the simpler folk like myself seeing a visualization of gains will help me better understand where I want my investment goals to be.

What would help people like me.
If we could have a simple web page with live feeds in bar graph form. Each bar should show a metric:

  1. Averaged gains per node
  2. Gains by providing equivalent amount of prv.
  3. Gains by providing btc, eth
  4. 5 6 7 8 and 9 Gains by adding top five liquidity pair

This would help multiple incognito features because it teaches the user that there are many options. Give it a good preview so the information is clearly seen if its linked on twitter.

Perhaps I see that a node makes mad gains,

  • “well I can’t afford one now but after seeing the graph I might have it as a longer term goal.”
  • “in the meantime I have learned I can provide prv,”
  • “oh and look at that chainlink is in the top five liquidity pairs needed right now, thats hot, I never knew I could make interest on my link. I have chainlink, ill put that up right away!”
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Now what JoyRaptor just posted really seems like a great idea for many would find such a web very helpful…JoyRaptor big kudos on that idea…me likes…:wink:

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@JoyRaptor That my friend is a freaking super idea! That information is exactly what someone who, as I put it is “Crypto Curious” a way to see how a Node/Node Tree could be a great option for them to give Crypto a shot! Yes, also does help out the less mathematically gifted folk the info. needed too! :smiley: :smiley:

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I am glad you like the idea.

I tried adding a pair. Prv and band, it took a while to figure out, and then I couldn’t see any gains, if anything it looked like I lost a very small fraction and because I did not know what I was in for i removed my investment.

As for the node I dont know if i should buy one or just stake 1700 prv, I don’t know what the numbers are. I tried the forums, but I know most people won’t try half of what I did. They will just give up. The provide on the other hand feature give near instant gratification so its addicting seeing a dollar a day gains that could avail if I only provide more.

An excellent experience.

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heya - love that you’ve been playing around with all the different options! just wanted to make sure you were aware that the Add feature is not interest-earning at the moment, only Provide, and similar to platforms like Uniswap, is still vulnerable to impermanent loss.

you’ll note that the Add UI is outdated and convoluted - we will turn our attention to it next month or so to make it easier for users to add both sides of a pair. will also probably have to restructure the incentives for that feature to make it worthwhile for providers. when we do, having a chart of sorts to show pairs in need of liquidity would be a cool addition for sure.

thanks again, and keep those ideas coming!

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I think this is a great idea, but in practice (especially in a forum that is static) this is very difficult.

For instance, I have had several Nodes running for about 6 months. I could tell you my average earnings for those nodes over that 6 month period (30 PRV / week), but the issue is that the number of nodes online and the returns varies greatly… Right now there are over 2000+ nodes online, and every new node added reduces the chance your node will be selected… so I have 2 new Nodes coming on this week, and I don’t expect them to earn the same average rate (hoping it is as least 20PRV/wk… but who knows). It is also a random selection process, I had a node go 40 days without every being selected, but I have also have a node earn over 100PRV in a single week. So no matter what we write about returns on hosting a node, it will become outdated, and the information becomes stale… as it totally depends on the size of the network and the number of slots open for validators to take (which will be changing as dynamic committee gets implemented (current release date is slated for April of next year). Even after all of this, it also comes down to whether you are are going to self host, use a hosting service (Like jservers). pNodes are just like vNodes when it comes to selection and randomness, the difference is you dont have to provide the 1750PRV stake, but you only get 35% of the rewards… so depending on the current price of PRV, it could be a better move than purchasing PRV for stake… again that depends on what you think the value of PRV is going to be.

Placing PRV (or other supported coins) in Provide create a constant rate of return, but that rate of return is also capable of changing depending on the needs the Incognito core team. They will obviously prioritize whatever is needed to make the project grow. Right now that is liquidity, hence the reason for a 37% APY (or about 31.5% APR) return… but don’t expect that to last forever, needs will change, and so will the rewards to compensate and support those needs.

Providing liquidity through the Add function, as pointed about by @ning, is outdated at this point, it is still possible, but you must be fully aware of impairment loss, or you might end up pretty upset with unexpected results… it is not a set % return, like you get with Provide… only do this if you are fully aware of the consequences/rewards possible.

I wish there was a simple easy list to post that explains all of the returns, so someone could just check the one they wanted and do it, but I just dont see that as possible, especially with a project that is under a year old and growing rapidly… Things are changing so fast, and so often it is hard to keep all the information on the forum even up to date (as example, you can just look at Add, it will be updated, but it all takes time)

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Oh wow…this string has been so informative for me…all that have posted in this string I wish to thank you for pointing out the main issue being
“ROI Stats on Differents ways of Staking” but even more so the added issues that were raised as the topic was discussed…just listening to each contributor’s thoughts made me see something new and therefore it’s been enlightening and I truly think…whoa…these be some very smart cookies…thank you all for the topic…and Doc you hit it right out of the park with that last post… :sunglasses: :100:

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Hey @JoyRaptor. My google sheet can kinda do this already. There isn’t a dedicated spot for this idea specifically, but I can add it pretty quickly. I just want to make sure I’m getting everything correct. You want to put in a dollar amount and see the year returns in a side by side chart for:

  1. Average returns of a p/v node
  2. Return of investing (provide) PRV
  3. Return of investing (provide) BTC
  4. Return of investing (provide) ETH
  5. Return of investing (provide) DAI
  6. Return of investing (provide) USDT
  7. Return of investing (provide) USDC
  8. Return of investing (provide) XMR
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Yes. A bar chart.

One thing to think about is it might be easier to show what someone would have made as opposed to how much they could make.

“Would have made” is nice because any price movements of a crypto would be prices in. A sort of live rolling 6 month performance bar graph.

For instance, I put in 2k of prv when it was a dollar. I made 30 prv so far, but prv has also gone up $1.2 so I am at $2430.

We could lable it.
Past 6 months staking performance gains for $1,000 (*averaged 20 days)

The narrative being: "if you did this just 6 months ago, you would have had x! Returns!

Ideally it would be a year, not 6 months, but incognito is so new we did not have staking for so long

@JoyRaptor If were just talking about investing in PRV, I can definitely add that. I have the price history, and even a projection in the sheet. I can show the return you would have made with the price of prv at the time of buy in to current day, and what it will yield you in the future possibly. The only problem is what some of the users posted above. Incognito is moving fast, and the rates are constantly changing. So the only thing I could do is use the current interest rates. As for node earnings, those are going down too. The only data I have are from my 3 nodes i staked in the beginning of June go off of.

I see so the problem is the rolling average of what you would have made may be different to what you can make in a future because the plans are gonna change?

@JoyRaptor That’s correct. For instance, The APY for investing has changed from 67%, to 37%, to now 28% in just the last 6 months. The amount on nodes that have come online have almost doubled. Which means both are earning roughly half they were 6 months ago in the roughest sense. It would be better to do a futures projection with the price increase included, and I would keep to something like 3 months. People didnt quite understand that interest rates would change so quickly early on. When they saw 67% APY, they assumed that meant it would stay that rate for a year.