Questions About The New Direction and Timeline

[SynthiaNominae]

Oh yeah, I double checked. I actually HAD 13 on order total, but 3 are getting refunded.

[abduraman]

@SynthiaNominae

I have 15 pNodes up and running, and 10 on the way.

Hey @SynthiaNominae, after the existing stock runs out, you may sell them via NFT I think it would be so wise in the current trends.

[abduraman]

@aaron

You can’t market a product that isn’t ready yet. The marketer in me is biased to always marketing, and I debated (in the productive, professional sense of the word) with the team about it. But with the new direction of the project, I’ve come to realize that we need to take a few months to get everything in order, then we can open the floodgates. I’m working on getting us ready to market once I get the green light, but for now, it would be a bad idea to get new users. Funneling them to the forum would just drown them in ambiguity and scattered information about a project still in progress. It would be bad for the reputation of the project, ultimately. Before any real growth strategy, we need:

I couldn’t agree more.

[SynthiaNominae]

Nah. They are mine, ALL MINE! Evil cackle.

[Chucky]

[Thriftinkid]

Thanks @aaron. This is a lot of great info! So if I’m reading this correctly, our rough timeline is something like this?

1. Add V.2 will be implemented first. The new percentages will be released shortly (Updated- See Below), but it’s safe to say that add V2 rates will be higher than provide to incentivize people to move off provide. The V2 rates look a little lower, but with the added benefit of collecting part of the trading fees correct?
2. Once that happens, Provide starts a 6-month transition to fully going away. We will start seeing v-nodes go offline (those 600) over the course of that time as people move their funds out of there.
3. In the middle of that around June, dynamic slashing will be implemented.
4. Once we see the number of nodes that consistently stay online after slashing starts, we will know how many healthy nodes we really have available.
5. As that number starts to stabilize, the remaining 176 slots will start being released slowly.

Assuming that is all correct, is it safe to say in the next 6 months we are looking at 600 v-nodes going offline and at least half those locked slots being released with the intention of all of them being released by EOY if everything is working as it should?

[Josh_Hamon]

Thanks @Thriftinkid, the community is fortunate to have you.

[Thriftinkid]

New Rates:

This should bring some clarity to the way Provide will work during the next couple of months:

• The incentive pool for Provide will contain a fixed amount of PRV that will be equally split between the top 5 PRV pairs: BTC, ETH, DAI, USDT, and XMR.
• The initial pool size will be ≈ 10% of the block reward.

Example:

Pair	Current liquidity	Non-PRV value in the pool	Reward pool in PRV (annual)	Approximate APY
PRV-pBTC	$20,005,412	$10,002,706	78,448	2.4%
PRV-pETH	$8,940,222	$4,470,111	78,448	5.3%
PRV-pDAI	$5,982,858	$2,991,429	78,448	7.9%
PRV-pUSDT	$4,267,084	$2,133,542	78,448	11.0%
PRV-pXMR	$4,075,567	$2,037,783	78,448	11.5%
PRV value in top 5 pools	$21,635,572		392,242	10.9%

In addition to this, around ≈ 1M PRV from Provide is locked in vNodes, which generates additional fuds to keep the APY for PRV at ≈ 21%

In accordance with this setup, we will initiate new rates for Provide beginning March 31:

Coin	Current	March 31
PRV	21%	21%
BTC	10%	3%
ETH	10%	5.50%
DAI	13%	8%
USDT	10%	11%
XMR	13%	11.50%

In April we will give an estimation on when the rebalancing process can be automated.

As for the coins that are not whitelisted above:

The APY for LTC, ZEC, and DASH will remain the same until the minimum trading fee is implemented. After that, those coins will be removed from Provide.

[Thriftinkid]

Trading Fees:

Currently, there is a 0% trading fee for all pairs in the pDEX. Economically, it does not incentivize liquidity providers to lock funds in pools, so the pDEX fully depends on additional network incentives like the Provide APY.

To solve this dependency, we’d like to implement a minimum trading fee that rewards anyone that uses the Add feature to trustlessly provide liquidity. This way, we can end the current trusted setup created by Provide.

Uniswap and other Ethereum-based DEXes use a standard fee of 0.3%. We believe that privacy is a unique feature offered by the Incognito pDEX, so the fee for anonymous trades should cost ≈ 0.25% for direct trade and 0.5% for cross-pair trade.

Do you agree? Should the fee be different? Let us know below this post.

[Thriftinkid]

Follow up @aaron about the trading fees. It says V2 liquidity investors will collect 10% of the block rewards. Does that mean the other 90% of the trading fees go to the validators?

[Mike_Wagner]

He means block rewards. Andrey floated the idea last fall:

@andrey

Direction 1: Distribute liquidity rewards as a percentage of block rewards – for every block mined, a percentage will go directly to liquidity providers.

The DAO and Beacon Chain already take a cut of the current block rewards.

@ning

Basically, there are 350 blocks per epoch. So you have 1.386666*350, then *0.9 (10% goes to the DAO), then *0.8 (20% goes to the beacon).

It’s unclear where v2 Liquidity will be taking its cut – before the DAO? Before the Beacon chain? After the Beacon chain?

The above post is for year one of mainnet. Block rewards have been reduced by 9%. So the current math is:

((1.261866*350)*0.9)*0.8/32 = 9.9372 PRV per epoch

For example, if the v2 Liquidity is taken after the Beacon chain cut:

(((1.261866*350)*0.9)*0.8)*0.9/32 = 8.9435 PRV per epoch

That would result in a ~1 PRV reduction per validator in block rewards, per epoch, to fund v2 Liquidity rewards. This would create ~254 PRV per epoch; 1,525 PRV per day; ~557,119 per year in v2 Liquidity rewards.

[Thriftinkid]

Got it. So is the fee split? If it’s .25% for a direct transaction, is that all going to validators? Liquidity providers are simply earning a fixed interest rate paid out by that 10%? Or does that all to the liquidity providers? I know validators are collecting cryptodust at this point. Im interested in what the effect of implementing fees does to that.

[Mike_Wagner]

These are good questions. I do not know. Best to go the source and ask here: https://we.incognito.org/t/ongoing-liquidity-v2/11037

[Thriftinkid]

Dont want to get too much cross posting going on here. I’ll wait to hear back from @aaron on these other questions first lol

[Mike_Wagner]

Fair enough, though Andrey did post:

@andrey

5. Decentralize pDEX and liquidity
   [snipped for brevity]

I’ll lead this development. So feel free to tag me (@andrey) for any related questions.

[efraimip]

@Thriftinkid

In accordance with this setup, we will initiate new rates for Provide beginning March 31:

Coin	Current	March 31
PRV	21%	21%
BTC	10%	3%
ETH	10%	5.50%
DAI	13%	8%
USDT	10%	11%
XMR	13%	11.50%

In April we will give an estimation on when the rebalancing process can be automated.

As for the coins that are not whitelisted above:

The APY for LTC, ZEC, and DASH will remain the same until the minimum trading fee is implemented. After that, those coins will be removed from Provide.

Just wanted to comment on this…

1. Please make sure users have ample notification of this ASAP. I randomly wandered in here and am very glad I could dig this info out of this thread. Its a total coincidence that I found this info though, and am sure a large portion of users wont see this.
   An in-app popup that shows on logging in over the next few weeks should be mandatory to show this news.
   Users get very mad when things change up on them without them being told.

2. I am very sad to see the decrease in provide rates. This was one of the (actually it was THE biggest) reason I was brought here to incognito. While privacy is great, and being able to shield my crypto is great, it is not my #1 concern. The provide APY for XMR was why I came here - as an XMR miner I needed a place to HODL and earn and nothing beat incognito. I will continue to pump XMR on incognito after this change — but I also ended up dumping some LTC and was just about to dump some BTC and ETH over as well before I saw this post and am not going to now that I see the rate change coming.
   So my question/comment for #2 here is actually: WHY the rate change? I’ve read this thread up to this post and cant really understand why provide is being phased out?

3. ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY is more clarity on what happens with our funds in provide when this change happens? Are our funds safe in provide? Do we need to withdraw and re-“stake”?
   Again - all this talk of changes, and no crystal clear bullet-point facts (or a FAQ maybe?) is hugely detrimental to widespread adoption.
   This is guaranteed to anger/upset some users, simply because they were not informed, and then they assume the worst, and withdraw from incognito and never come back because they think something shady went on when they see the change (whatever it is).
   I fully support this project and was planning on getting more involved, putting up another $100k or so this week actually, but finding out clarity about how things work is difficult. (Well, sometimes - many of your pages are very well written like the links at the top of the page – its more about the changes coming and what we have to expect from them…)

4. (Sorry, I had more thoughts/questions while typing) — I really wanted to get a few power nodes. I tried a few times in-app over the last few weeks but it says “feature not available”. Why is this? Is there some limit to their availability? Backlog of orders? I read something in this thread regarding “slots available” — I have no idea what that means though.

Thank you.

[Thriftinkid]

@efraimip

Please make sure users have ample notification of this ASAP. I randomly wandered in here and am very glad I could dig this info out of this thread. Its a total coincidence that I found this info though, and am sure a large portion of users wont see this.
An in-app popup that shows on logging in over the next few weeks should be mandatory to show this news.
Users get very mad when things change up on them without them being told.

An in app notification would be nice.

@efraimip

I am very sad to see the decrease in provide rates. This was one of the (actually it was THE biggest) reason I was brought here to incognito. While privacy is great, and being able to shield my crypto is great, it is not my #1 concern. The provide APY for XMR was why I came here - as an XMR miner I needed a place to HODL and earn and nothing beat incognito. I will continue to pump XMR on incognito after this change — but I also ended up dumping some LTC and was just about to dump some BTC and ETH over as well before I saw this post and am not going to now that I see the rate change coming.
So my question/comment for #2 here is actually: WHY the rate change? I’ve read this thread up to this post and cant really understand why provide is being phased out?

@andrey has a good write up on this actually. @Mike_Wagner posted it in the comments above. My quote is pulled directly from his. Provide is not sustainable and creates an unbalanced liquidity for the network that favors only those coins specifically in provide. Going the pairs model makes the over all network stable while still getting rewarded for leaving your funds here.

@efraimip

ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY is more clarity on what happens with our funds in provide when this change happens? Are our funds safe in provide? Do we need to withdraw and re-“stake”?

Your funds are safe. My understanding is if you don’t move them yourself by the time provide is eventually phased out 6 months from now, they will simply be removed for you and returned to your wallet. Someone correct me if Im wrong here

@efraimip

(Sorry, I had more thoughts/questions while typing) — I really wanted to get a few power nodes. I tried a few times in-app over the last few weeks but it says “feature not available”. Why is this? Is there some limit to their availability? Backlog of orders? I read something in this thread regarding “slots available” — I have no idea what that means though.

Incog is no longer selling physical devices. In order to run a node, you will have to purchase or earn PRV by adding funds to the liquidity. Total you will need to run a virtual device is 1750 PRV.

[Tempestblack]

yes yes… @Chucky the precioussss…but for me that refers to the badge that @Thriftinkid at this time holds…but I do love the meme on your post…can I get copy of it?..

[Tempestblack]

Thank you to @Thriftinkid and to @Mike_Wagner for the posts they made in this string…you guys are really awesome…for the clear explanations of topics that might without your posts confuse others here in the community…it is always a welcome sight to see your posts explaining topics or whatever issue the thread is about…

[RobynFitzooth]

I don’t think I would bother trading if the fee were to be 0.25%. This would encourage trading for bigger trades, and discourage trades on shorter basis. E.g. you would lose money more often trading on 1minute, 3minute, 5minute basis potentially. Binance has been doing pretty well for themselves keeping trading fees low, and I would imagine that they still make money I would imagine that other exchanges would be in line with this: https://www.binance.com/en/fee/schedule