Auditing what, Vietnam?
sounds like they are hiding something. why lack transparency in this project??
@detved you are more like a trol than I am. The current change is exactly what the project needs, and what I have been talking about for a while now. You can’t blame me for being happy about this change (happiness doesn’t include removing the support team). As much as others have the right to express their concerns, I allowed to express my lack of concerns as well.
The team has been involved with multiple successful projects already, I have come to know them all as passionate people. That is where my trust in the team and the project comes from. Dumb? Maybe, time will tell.
If I remember correctly, the team put $5Mill together to start this project, the 1Mill number related to the lines of code, but I am pretty sure there are way more lines of code already.
What they need more than your money is your trust. If you feel uncomfortable having your money in the system you should move it out. You can always rejoin later on when things are more aligned with your requirements.
I don’t need them to show me how things are taken care of, I am not moving my funds out of the Incognito system, I will buy more when the price is right. Probably add some vNodes to my pNodes as well. To me it feels like the “we are building something great” vibe that was present during testnet phase is coming back.
Decentralized, private, ease of use, those things will bring even more value to the project than it has already.
So instead of demanding more info, I’d go with the info you have, if it is not secure for you, don’t put your money in it. If you feel uncomfortable remove your money, or leave a small part of it in the system so you don’t regret stepping back, later on. No one can blame you for taking care of your funds the way you feel is best.
This is not true. It was in fact $1 Million
Incognito would have my Trust, and most of the communities Trust if Incognito released the necessary information that we have been asking for, throughout the many months. This has been a consistent problem. It was initially brought up as an issue by @raz in April of 2020 when I first joined as a member. It has been an issue ever since. The Team’s response to this was that we would have a voting system in place to give the community a say and direct the platform. However that never happened and we never got the requested information.
Yeah except back then Incognito wasn’t financially responsible for a mainnet launch with over 40Mill in liquidity. If you think its remotely right to cast the community aside and focus on whatever you want to focus on without community input, then by all means, watch the people leave and watch the project die. The fact is, the community is way more invested in the platform then the Devlopers or the Core Team. Incognito is playing with the platform like they still own it and can do whatever they want with it. That’s not how these things work. Yes we pushed for decentralization, yes i’m happy that that’s the path we are currently working towards. A simple release of information guaranteeing that our money is safe is all that we are looking for, why is that so hard to ask for? Why is that so hard to give to people?
The attitude of we do what we want, and if you don’t like it, you can leave will literally be the downfall of the platform. Last time Incognito pulled this type of thing was when the liquidity rates were changed to make providing not profitable. Andrey shared this same sentiment against the communities concerns and you know what happened. PRV started to Tank hard. To remedy the situation, provide came out and the price started to climb again. Incognito wouldn’t even be in the current situation that it is in if it released the requested information. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want to do so as it would dwindle concerns and bring Trust back to the platform.
Apart from the support team being taken out as the middle man, what exactly changed?
As much as I regret them being let go, this must have been a shock for them personally, none of these people were part of securing the network, making your funds safe and so on.
The financial security of your funds is the same as one, two, three, weeks, months ago. The (lack of) information is the same as one, two, three weeks, months ago.
The ones who should complain should probably be the devs.
You are correct, the financial security is the same as before. No change except more time has passed. The fact that it keeps getting sidelined is the problem. The fact that it’s been this long and we still have no more information then we previously did a year ago is the problem. But the biggest problem now, is the fact we don’t have anyone to communicate our concerns with. It’s clear that the devs don’t care, they are too focused on decentralization. It’s clear that whoever runs this platform doesn’t care, they just fired our only life line. It seems to me that the community was just thrown to wolves, and sorry, the teams busy coding. You expect us to watch this happen without demanding some assurances, your out of your mind. It would be irresponsible to not make noise in this specific scenario. Too many peoples financial futures are currently at stake. You think a majority of the people who use the platform are on the forums or in the telegram? No. You think a majority of people would feel betrayed if they found out what the current situation is?
AAron seems to think so, and quite frankly I agree...
And honestly, so do many people in the community. That is the current issue at hand. It’s quite obvious that the gravity of the situation is not understood. There is a reason why my first post on this thread has the amount of likes it does, it’s not because people disagree with my argument.
I really valued the communication work @Aaron did.
Yes, I am very unhappy how slow the dev team responds. Almost 1-2 weeks for a simple answer to my question while I developed Incognito Signal. But ey, I just started reading their code, as in every other project I have been part of in the last 15 years.
I have discovered the topic of payments for myself. Therefore I started to work on Incognito Signal and Incognito Pay Kit.
I don’t know how to get in touch with so many founders and contributors of technologies I am working with day by day. Therefore I gave them enough trust to develop my apps and more using their technologies.
I did the same as I started this Integrate Incognito into Signal (PoC).
And I continue building new payment stuff.
The community must come alive through all of us.
@jamie was that message intended to be addressed to me? This is the first time I’ve posted in this thread.
My apologies, I meant detved
Your lifeline was replaced with another one. But by all means, fight for what you feel is worth fighting for, or against.
For now I am going with the flow, give them some time to adjust and see what they come up with.
If you say so,
Seems like no ones opinion matters except the Big Boi Upstairs. He hasn’t even been around the community in a long while. Shit’s way to risky imho. The only reason I was comfortable investing in the platform was because I had a say in what goes on. The promise was that, the say I had and the say that the community had would expand. However recent events over these past months took all of those rights away from the community. You know, after they poured their hearts, souls, and money into the platform and used it as their main finance platform.
I don’t know how you can look at whats happening as a community member and justify the actions that took place here. The community was taken advantage of and discarded.
Replace Builder Rewards: A bust (just remove it instead)
Voting and Governance: A Bust
Requesting Transparency with Financial Information to make sure our funds aren’t at risk: A Bust
Having a Proper Support Team: A Bust
All the promises the Growth Team made to the community: Poof, Thin Air
I wonder how the BTC lottery for quest is going to be done.
The fact that Incognito is comfortable doing this to the community is why they aren’t currently trustworthy. Treats the community like they do and expects people to keep building and stay, that’s a joke.
A majority of everyone who has money in Incognito, there financial future is literally controlled by a dude they don’t even know and who doesn’t seem to care about them. Not to mention they are seemingly in control of more then 70% of the current circulating supply of PRV and probably the private keys to all the trusted bridges. If that doesn’t scare you, well, keep on doing what your doing.
I would use the same arguments to state the opposite, but like I said, I was here before there was money to be made, when privacy was the main goal and profit was said to be a longterm thing. That guy was very present, and eager to hear about whatever people brought to the table that could push the project forward, improve it.
That guy, also said then “If you’d ask me is Incognito a good project to earn a quick buck, I would say no, better find another project. However if you value privacy, stick around, it will be very profitable in the future”.
Then he took a sabbatical year and left the company in the team’s hands. How is that for trust?
I have no info on what happened on his return, but it seems that building a solid product before marketing it was more appealing to him than market a project in progress giving new users a bad experience.
Where you say they don’t care about the community I would say they put the community first at the moment. How many times have people argued about decentralizing, about security and so on. That is exactly what is being focused on now.
The future of Incognito has never been brighter.
(why support had to go beats me, maybe that gets cleared in the future, maybe not)
Financial safety is not equivalent to generating money. Why do you think a majority of us are here, to make profit? There are far better opportunities to make profit currently. Incognito is a privacy platform! Asking for financial safety means that the money I put in isn’t going to disappear. Currently there is no guarantee to that, and there is no effort to make a guarantee, or even be transparent about the possibilities. In fact right now it’s at an all time high for riskiness.
What do you think the motives were behind the push for decentralization? Maybe it’s because the community lacked a guaranteed say for what goes on in the platform. If the platform grew any bigger it would have been a target and the single point of failure is it’s centralization. Removing the rights of the community when they are responsible for a large majority of all the money inside the platform is just unintelligent. Saying that they are putting the community first currently is grossly dishonest. No attempts of assurances are even remotely being considered, and it won’t be for another 3-6 months.
I’d also like to mention you can say all you want about how Incognito is listening to the community now, and decentralizing. But that is absolutely not true.
It’s quite simple, it’s his decision and not the communities. He hasn’t been around this past year to know what the community wanted.
Legit left, comes back, fires everybody who built the community around Incognito because they “did too good of a job” and leaves the community to the dust after they put 40Mill into liquidity. Yeah, and no one should be scared of a rug pull or be concerned whats happening with the platform.
Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds when you look at the facts from the communities perspective?
No, not really. I think we can agree to disagree. No need to keep going back and forth. I am too busy setting up vNodes anyway. Whether you stay or leave I wish you the best.
From an outsider perspective, I just wanna say I’m glad you guys are having this discussion @detved @Revolve @Jamie. It may seem heated at points, but that just shows me that you guys all have strong ties to this project and genuinely want the best for it long term. That’s encouraging to me.
My main concern is that you guys are the only ones talking, and there clearly are issues. Two I personally have questions about are:
1)As a consumer-level individual, what currently is in place to make me feel safe investing, or at least trusting that PRV is actually worth it’s current value? There’s probably a lot to unpack there, but please- if you can, ELI5.
2) Once that issue is resolved in my head- the focus of this thread is to keep building Incognito. I see the anticipated roadmap posted in a different thread, but what can I, as an average user, start to get excited about in the future of this project? Would love to hear what devs have going, and more especially what community builders are excited to promote.
Thanks in advance for whoever can answer all that, and for all of you keeping this project moving.
As you have probably guessed, this is my major concern right now, and is the reason for me making all this noise. At it’s current state, I personally don’t believe the risk associated with the platform is currently factored into the price of PRV.
- The price of PRV is determined by liquidity. People have to pair the coins they put in with PRV into the DEX. Provide allows one sided providing, but still utilizes the same system. PRV is just taken from nodes ran by the core team. The PRV funding these nodes are from users who Provide PRV. Provide is closed source, so we can not see the code.
- The Core Team currently controls way more than 70% of all the PRV in circulation. Most of this PRV is from block earnings that go directly to the DAO. Currently the information in regards to the DAO and the transactions that they make are not public. We also don’t know who has the ability to authorize DAO transactions. The process is assumed to be manual because we have no information, and the Core Team does not currently want to provide this information for whatever reason. Keep in mind, this has been going on for months.
- These DAO funds can be liquidated removing all the crypto funds from the pDEX leaving worthless PRV. This is the current risk, and we don’t have any information or assurances proving otherwise.
The amount of PRV that a consumer-level individual has, is such a small insignificant fraction of the total amount of PRV currently available. The total amount of PRV in the pDEX is similarly minuscule. The current price of PRV only factors in the volume of that small fraction.
If you can Trust that the Core Team will not liquidate large quantities of PRV, then you should be fine. However at this current moment with the circumstances that exist, I would not. I have been here for a long ass time and dedicated a lot of effort into the platform. I have always pushed for Transparency, Decentralization, and Community Involvement. We have progressed over these many months to include all 3 of those things, however, in these past few months, Incognito has managed to sacrifice all of them in favor of development for decentralization. Don’t get me wrong, decentralization is important, but after seeing the consistency of the Core Team giving false promises time after time again, my Trust in them has only been going downwards. Removing the “Growth Team” without community say was the last straw. Transparency is the only thing that would make me want to stay, and that is what I am asking from them here. There is no reason for them not to want the same thing.
Most bridges are also centralized with closed source software. So you are Trusting the Core Team to be custodians of the crypto that you shield. So, again the pVersions of your coins are only backed 1:1 if you trust in what the Core Team says. There is currently no way to prove otherwise.
Some Extra Context:
The Core Team is based in Vietnam, which has no extradition order to the US. Take this information as you will. I only mention this information, because of the current circumstance, I think it’s important to understand the full picture.
With the current roadmap, we are looking at Decentralization of the platform within the next 3-6 months. Meaning we can grow without the concern of having the potential for “government” take down. This is necessary and exciting if it can be pulled off. Then hopefully we can actually focus on the DAO structure and give the community a say. However, I would much prefer the community to have a say now, and not have to wait 3-6 months as I believe the price of PRV will suffer drastically and a lot of people will lose their money because of poor choices made by the ‘founder’. Playing with peoples money is not right, nor is it in the best interest of the community, or the platform. However, that is opinion.
Unfortunately Community building has not progressed much since Builder Rewards got removed. There was a promise to replace it with a newer better system, however that didn’t happen.
Great response, truly appreciated.
Such a mixed picture, tho. Think I’m gunna roll the dice, stick around, and hope everyone advocating for what’s best is heard.
Incredible how just a little communication from “The Founder” or any core team members could ease this tension…
After being around Incognito for a long while, I can almost guarantee nothing happens in that regard unless the price of PRV drops significantly enough.
Hey @Revolve bro…I can attest how long you have been around here and well I have been here since last April and seen the ups and downs here at Incognito as well…everything you have stated is valid and true and likewise, you have contributed greatly to this community and the platform…I agree with you on the points you make especially the one about the loss of the growth team and the lack of DAO not being in the communities hands…now that being said it seems that we be in the minority as to those stated positions…so what we are left with is to either stick out for now or one can always pull one’s fiat and crypto out and yet still stick by the community or one can do as some have done as we both know and just totally left the community and the platform…I for one am sticking by for now but have taken measures to safeguard my monies…I do not wish you to leave and hope you are not…I value your input here as I do your friendship…but yea we be brothers in arms when it comes to the issues you raise with Incognito…now that all having been said…I have to confess I crazy adore @Jamie though she takes a sort of counterpoint to your position…it is kind of humorous in a way to see the bank and forth between you both in this string…and well yes I love this community and the platform and do hope and pray it works out in the end…
My friend, trust me when I say this, we are not the minority. We just have no say. 90% of the community would want the information that I requested. Most people agree with my statements. It’s not like I threw all this out there without talking to community members first.