By better than nothing I mean more so there is a chance to get a lotto ticket for 1BTC or something worth more than 0.01PRV. With this percentage (personally 100% after like 7 rolls of 0.01PRV) if you get a lotto ticket you have a pretty fair draw.
Join the Privacy Quest, earn prizes (up to 1 BTC)
0.01PRV chance is now 0.9407%. RIGGED! 
1 Like
Hey there @MrAwesome, thanks for your thoughts.
We published documentation on odds so everyone is aware, and have made it clear from the beginning that not all prizes have the same probability. And since the spin fee doesn’t come close to covering the cost of the prizes (that isn’t its purpose), the game is quite fair in that we’re giving out prizes genuinely and at our expense. Nothing is rigged about it 
While it’s a bummer not to win, such is the nature of randomness! Keep trying your luck, and your perspective might change when you win 
3 Likes
7 Likes
Let’s do some math. Now it is 3784 spins total, 3559 0.01PRV, 193 lottos. So approx 94,05% for 0.01PRV and 5,1% for lotto. You wanted 21k lottos claimed to start a lottery. So it will be about 410k spins in total. And it will be about 385k spins with 0.01PRV from them. For 0.07PRV per spin, you will earn around 27k PRVs. That’s around 42k$. You will give a BTC to someone -17k$ and other prizes on the wheel, 0,85% let it be -10k$ max. Funny, around 1BTC left. No offense, maybe I wrong in my thoughts, but I just suddenly remembered one “lucky wheel” in my country called “pyramid MMM”.
3 Likes
Hey @AxZ Yes, lets do some math.
So currently, without taking into account the 0.01 PRV prizes:
There are:
2000 1 PRV Prizes
500 2 PRV Prizes
300 3 PRV Prizes
100 10 PRV Prizes
Total PRV = 4900 PRV($7,546 USD)
500 .01 XMR
100 .1 XMR
Total XMR = 15 XMR ($1760,85 USD)
100 0.001 BTC
Total BTC: = .1 BTC ($1,704 USD)
40 pNodes ($400 each)
Total pNodes = $16,000 USD
25 1 year VPN($100 each)
Total VPN = $2,500 USD
Prizes:
$7,546 in PRV + $1,760 in XMR + $1,704 in BTC + $16,000 in pNodes + $2,500 VPN for 1 year + $17,000 for 1BTC
We get roughly 47,000$ in total prizes awarded.
If we now take into account the spin fee:
Spin fee: 404,500 * 0.07 = 28,315 PRV (43,605$)
$47,000 prizes - $43,605 spin fee = $3,395 Loss.
This is without taking into account the development time, developer salary, support team salary, and effort it took to build this. So you see, this is not a profit endeavor.
It’s important to remember that Incognito is not build on a profit-making model in the first place. We’re building privacy products that are free to use. Fees and funds are dedicated to the sustaining the network, paying out provide rewards, rewarding builders for their work, and starting new projects (like the Quest). What we want is for the world to take control of their privacy with Incognito. When that happens, we all win.
You can find a rundown of all the prizes here.
9 Likes
Ya I read that after the fact. You know it’s a kinda cool utilization of the technology even though I’m quite salty that all my spins landed on 0.01 PRV after I sent the time searching and finding the quest answers. I considered buying some extra quest (liquidity pools are cool) but before I could do it the price went way higher than I would pay.
Still a pretty cool event. It will forever be recorded.
3 Likes
I get it, and would generally support it…
Still, a mea culpa for how badly this had been rolled out and managed would be nice to see.
First, it was 1 QUEST = 1 spin…
Then 1 QUEST + 0,01PRV = 1 Spin…
Now, 1 QUEST + 0,08 PRV = 1 Spin…
So, I can plan ahead, what’s tomorrow’s change going be?
Can I donate my quest tokens to a worthy cause instead of wasting more time on this?
7 Likes
@Thriftinkid @detved, Thanks for the thoughts.
We’re definitely culpable for causing frustration here. I’m not trying to turn my response here into copypasta, but you share concerns with others, and our stance is the same.
I should have planned our releases and communication better. The devs working on the game were brilliant in their problem-solving and adapted to the unexpectedly large amount of players quickly. This left me with fast-coming updates to announce, which were handled poorly. The changes themselves, if we’re objective, were quite innocuous. Beneficial, even.
All of the changes were announced in advance, and during pre-launch. You shouldn’t need to worry about tomorrow’s change. Additionally, not every change was negative and all changes were made only to make the game better. The fees, for example, were designed to encourage app usage and protect against fraud. The BTC Lotto made sure that there was a 100% chance that someone would win the BTC. We doubled prizes to account for a large amount of players. The changes were also accompanied by total transparency with the probability documentation.
I understand that sudden changes feel disingenuous. None of this was intended to disappoint, and everything done so far was only done to create a fun and informative game that shows off Incognito’s privacy tech and points people toward other kinds of privacy solutions, too.
As for why the fee is 0.08 PRV, there are a few reasons. It was about finding a balance. Too small, and it would do nothing to deter spammers. Too large, and it puts an undue burden on genuine players. Even with the fee, the team is still taking a loss. That’s ok, because this was never about the money in the first place.
Ultimately, it was my poor communication that resulted in some people feeling burned by the Quest, and the current Quest outside that context is actually quite spectacular. I hope you can still enjoy it, and that you learn cool things from the Quest clues.
4 Likes
So people complaining about paying 0.08 PRV per spin yet will pay astronomical gas fees on ETH for some speculative ICO tokens?
3 Likes
I think it more deals with the fact that there was many chances when it came to the reward and the 94% chance of 0.01 PRV for an investment of 0.08 PRV just rubs people the wrong way. Honestly I think it would have been better giving nothing back. Getting 1/8 back just hurts.
Do you know if in the future there will be a plan to maybe be able to do more then just one spin at a time like, select 5 spins and then pay the 5 quest and .40 prv and it will then spin 5 times in a row?
Doing one at a time and having the transaction wait timer sometimes takes a while.
2 Likes
In my view one of the best use cases for crypto is gambling. Because you don’t need to trust it. You can prove mathematically that it is fair at the shown rates.
Heck of a link their AK…real interesting topic on wikipedia…thanks for sharing… 
1 Like
Sorry guys (team). I’m still with you but not on this issue. I want to write my sincere comments. First, I should write some definitions, to my understanding ofc.
Quest: a long search for something that is difficult to find, or an attempt to achieve something difficult. (Cambridge dictionary)
Lottery with sold tickets (LST): a game in which tickets with numbers are sold to people who then have a chance of winning a prize if their number is chosen. (Cambridge dictionary) In this type of lotteries, the organizer does not lose an important amount of money, in fact, in most cases, it earns money.
Lottery with earned tickets (LET): a game in which tickets with numbers are given to people, in exchange for doing some tasks, who then have a chance of winning a prize if their number is chosen. (Abduraman’s dictionary 
) In this type of lotteries, the organizer lose some money since it wants some reputation, visibility or something similar in exchange for the prizes.
First of all, sorry about my possible bad definitions. I couldn't find the correct single-words to differentiate LST and LET. Language barrier :slight_smile:
Personally, I don’t like both LET and LST. Besides, I’m against LST because of economical and religious reasons. So I don’t join such lotteries (LST). As @Thriftinkid and some others also share, I thought/understood that I would spend some effort to find hunts, would win some lottery tickets, and then could earn a prize if the wheel chose a prize. So a number of people like me thought that this lottery was a LET. Ok, nobody guaranteed that each contestant would win a prize. In fact, this is not the concern of those people. They didn’t expect to pay some fee for a spin since they thought that they spent some time to find hunts. I was busy at that time so I spent time just for easy ones (If I had known the current situation, I wouldn’t have spent that time either). However, probably some honest people dedicated an important amount of their time to find those hunts and then they faced some unexpected fee to spin the wheel. I think this is the reason of those people’s frustration.
Sorry @Chucky. Imho these (including fraud, doubling the prize) are not valid excuses which are none of the contestants’ business. Here, the loss should have been around the values of the prizes.
The other issue is the behavior against those people. The approaches similar to "love or leave", "we didn't say/write so", "you got it wrong" etc. were not elegant. Imho the team should have accepted its faults without any excuses instead of defending itself. This does not mean that the team should give some little prizes to those honest people. This is the team's call. I cannot say anything on it. I'm just saying that the behavior against those people should have been different.
5 Likes
Give the app access to your camera. It will work after that.
I guess the option of winning nothing would have been better than making it 0.01 PRV. That is what happens at a regular lottery, most of the people win nothing.
Personally I think it is a lot about nothing. If it is unfair for everyone, it is fair for everyone.
Trying to keep scammers out of any system that rewards money (in any form) is just hard. The team went with this solution. Wrong or right, doesn’t really matter. Play or don’t play. Your choice.
3 Likes
Wrong or right should always matter!
If these fees where known at the start I would understand your argument, but they were introduced after we had already chosen to play.
Imagine I told you that you would get a $100 cash prize for running a marathon. Thinking this is a pretty good deal you start running, then when there are only a few minutes to the finish line I inform you that it will cost $120 to claim your $100 price. You are obviously upset, but I tell you that you have no reason to be upset because you can simply stop running.
This is what you are essentially saying.
5 Likes
I concur with the sentiment here. It sounded like, it was worth finding the QR codes and scanning them. But with the hassle of buying PRV to spin the wheel with a very low probability of winning a 1BTC is not justifiable with friends and family.
It would have been a great marketing play if it was done right, even if the prices were of a much lower amount.
I tend to believe that the last-minute addition (or lack of communication) of the spin fees would have created hatred towards Incognito(which is well understood from a lot of posts here) among a lot of people creating a feeling of wasting their time scanning the codes that are not worth it at the end of the day.
That aside, I personally loved the Quest and I’m ok with costs. I hope, the team is a bit a more careful with their new ventures. I’m a pro-privacy person.
8 Likes
Are the prize payouts still bogged down? I won two lottery tickets about 2 days ago, but I have only had one come through so far.