Buy crypto anonymously on the Incognito pDEX   

Gold - Incognito Debit Card

#21

I have some experience with crypto payment systems.
From my experience kyc and aml is required when issuing white label cards.
Regarding setting up your own payments network I can add that our team also adapted a standard POS device to accept any currency from the crypto exchange (the promotor of the project). There was an MVP and the POS price was around 400 usd. The plan was to franchise a bank in a box business around the world.
The 3rd product of the payment network was a small crypto atm. They can be white labeled. If you DYOR you can find small desktop sized entry models around 500 usd - 2 ways.

ATM cards are the wrong way to go if user wants to keep 100% private. Those days were gone 10 years ago.

Building/integrating something like Ramp Network (uses open banking from TrueLayer if I am not mistaken) inside the incognito app could work. This would ID users when they on/off ramp fiat but then automate shielding.

The POS and ATM machine are easy and cheap to build the hard part is adoption… Turning them into a payment system franchise.

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#22

I think that creating a new debit card for a privacy coin is not a good idea. KYC/AML is mandatory in EU and USA, especially if you want higher limits ($/month). Also creating an Incognito dedicated card is not really useful, since PRV token now exist only inside Incognito network.
I think that simply using an existing debit card will be sufficient, if the scope is to pay for goods/services: simply convert your tokens with the DEX and send to the debit card wallet (ex. PRV -> pETH -> ETH).
There are also some cards that have also an IBAN associated, for SEPA transfers. For example the Amon Card/Wallet already have the personal IBAN, the integrated interest earning (for different cryptos, through Celsius), and the real-time conversion of the crypto when using the card (it will be available in Q3, based on UnionPay). I think it could also be an option if someone wants a rapid bridge FIAT-crypto (both ways) and doesn’t mind the KYC…

The real problem with privacy is that none of the VISA/Mastercard/UnionPay circuits are privacy oriented, they belongs to tradition finance systems. In some countries there are also problems when accepting cash or using other payments system. For crypto there could be also bigger taxes if a merchant converts the received cryptos into FIAT… This can limit the adoption of a payment network.

An interesting thing that instead could be easily integrated in the Incognito App, regardless the Debit Card project, could be a bridge with a service like bitrefill.com for the Gift Cards, automating the purchase of the cards (phone refills included) inside the App. If the scope is buy things on amazon or in some local shops this could be an interesting compromise…

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#23

Welcome to the community Horus87…:sunglasses:… :thinking:…hmmm you make very valid points…thank you for the input

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#24

We still are waiting for information back from Crypto.com, but this is essentially how I believe the integration with their white-label card would work. I’m not certain, but I don’t think we’d be staking PRV to unlock the benefits of the card. Most likely, the card would still require MCO stake. To top off the card in order to shop, you would send it private coins, which would be burned and then minted back into normal crypto tokens–essentially as you describe above.

The benefit of having a card linked more directly to the Incognito Dex is, it could increase trading volume. Users would need to trade for the right tokens to load onto the card, and they could do so privately. This could help the team hit their volume goals and would be very good for validators as well; they would earn block rewards on those increased transactions.

It’s true, users could just do the same thing now with any of the other cards available on the market. But having a card more specific to the Incognito platform would also add to the legitimacy of the project and potentially increase adoption.

Of course, I don’t know exactly how the integration with CdC will work yet. This is just a guess. Once we figure it out, if it’s not advantageous to the system, we just won’t do it.

Agree! Fold does this as well. Wouldn’t hurt for a community member to reach out to them and propose a partnership. You’d earn builder rewards!

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#25

Could almost anything be used to store the NFC?

I’m thinking about having something completely random where it would be hard for someone to steal it and use it because it shows no resemblance to a credit/debit card.

If possible, the thief wouldn’t know what to steal. (Hope that makes sense).

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#26

This is part of the reason I suggested integrating Flexa Network. It is not tied to traditional payment rails and the transaction fees are significantly cheaper. The downfall is it’s only accepted at about 40,000 US locations for now. I believe the incognito team is working on this.

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#27

Well theoretically, all the NFC chip would have is your Incognito Wallet ID. You then would have to accept the payment request on the app. That way it’s pretty much secure. You can even buy NFC stickers online for cheap. If you really wanted to be secure about it, it could be password encrypted to.

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#28

The NFC idea backed with secondary password or Authenticator is great. I only think we need the card option as to help those maybe new to crypto to not feel even more alienated. Maybe give both options? I’m sure most would be willing to pay a small fee it if needed to offset cost of 2 types of payment vehicles. NFC is the future of cards anyway so I like that direction. Welcome to the community @somethingnew!

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#29

I have been funding a physical DAI “banknote” (think Kong cash) with an embedded NFC chip. Can be manufactured for 2usd but the 1st prototype needed more/better security features.
I will keep this channel updated, it might be a interesting option for some. Does not get more private than that.

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#30

I want such!
KYS required?

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#31

I have fiddled with the Idea of creating crypto cash and using NFC, but it doesn’t seem easy. Security would be really hard. Your essentially just providing a paper wallet to someone and that wallet could be technically redeemed by anyone who manages to get the code. You need to make sure it’s tamper proof.

As for a crypto debit card system (no fiat involved) attached to your wallet, you don’t really need to store any value on it. Just a pointer to your wallet address so they can send a payment request. The app takes care of the actual transaction. No KYC needed if there is no transfer to USD.

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#32

I have read all the replies to this thread and I’m very interested to see what the team comes up with. I think it would be amazing to have a card that lets me spend my crypto anonymously and would be amazing for adoption.

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#33

I just had an idea. If/when we get a debit card however it may be, it would be a great addition to offer a percentage of “cryptoback” (similar to cashback) on purchases using the card. And you could offer higher percentages for holding more PRV like have tiers of benefits for holding PRV. Just had this idea and had to share it :sunglasses:

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#34

Thanks, @Brakley! Just for clarification, this debit card program isn’t something we are creating. It’s more of something we are thinking about joining, the Crypto.com white label card project. I believe Crypto.com would control the terms of the card and any types of rewards we would receive. Also, the card would require KYC, so it wouldn’t be anonymous.

@Revolve has some good ideas on creating something truly a bit more private, but that’s probably a longer-term project.

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#35

If it requires KYC and doesn’t offer anonymity then I wouldn’t even bother. This would totally negate the purpose of the platform and would only endanger incognito users. I would just develop incognito’s own card from the ground up.

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#36

I talked to @andrey about this, and he doesn’t see an issue with the KYC. Several users agree.

To be clear, the KYC wouldn’t apply to your Incognito account. Only the card would require KYC, and only if you opt in to use it.

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#37

Hello, could a prepaid card be viable? You know one you can purchase over the counter or online with cash or money order. And it already be loaded with some PRV. Could you also set it up the your incognito wallet could be used to reload it? I am not tech savvy just throwing that idea out to see if it could be viable.

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#38

I am curious if our offshoot Debt card would have to follow the same staking/rewards scheme? If it does, I will be unable to participate. The point at which the rewards begin to add up is at the 3% level. 3% back and bonuses of Spotify and Netflix covered (paid in MCO back) however you have to stake $2,775.00 at the current rate of MCO @ $5.55. then add whatever funds you intended to use. This is a dollar amount that currently is out of reach for such small rewards. Also, if I had the almost 3K I would be further ahead staking it in the Liquidity pool. Just a curiosity question and my potential concern.

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#39

Hi, I like your post and we share many concerns. My number one concern is the tax implication and consequences of what is considered a “taxable event” whenever cryptos are bought and sold. Any websites which require KYC are expected to provide (or have the potential to provide) these “transactions” to the IRS and this can create serious headache when tax time comes. As far as I know, and I can be wrong, some transactions using debit cards from Crypto.com may be subjected to being “taxable” and that’s why I have not been loading my card up and using it even though I have it. This also stopped me in my tracking to invest more of my money in cryptos in KYC places since I don’t really want to deal with the tax consequences.

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#40

If your worried about taxable events, I believe taking out a crypto backed loan is not considered a taxable event. Your able to pay back the loan with your crypto collateral as well. I believe some companies allow you to use this loan as a credit line.

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