@Mike_Despo - well said, can’t agree more! 
200+ New Validators in the last 24 hours!
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I think the APY is fixed on 37% and that has not changed. Just the refresh of the value is now every hour.
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Why wasn’t this talked about or discussed with the community in the last monthly video call?
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No one is concerned with the Pool APY. The concern is with the influx of new nodes decreasing the chances their nodes will be selected to earn.
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How many nodes total were / are being added? Have all of the nodes already come online?
What has Incognito dev team done to ensure diversification with these nodes? Multiple data centers in various geographic areas? How many accounts were created? If only a few accounts were created with hosting providers this opens a large group of nodes to hacking / random account suspensions by the hosting providers.
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Hey guys! @Thriftinkid @sid @Anon
Just want to highlight a few things to make sure that we all are on the same page.
Pool v1
In pool v1 - 100% of tokens went to firing up vNodes, and earnings were paid to users. Node Pool took all the difficulty and the random element out of node operation, for those that preferred steady earnings and a hands-off approach.
Pool v2
With Pool v2 (Provide) you can earn interest on not only PRV but also other coins. This time, the emphasis and endpoint is on increasing liquidity for the pDEX. Coins like BTC, ETH, USDT - go directly towards their respective pDEX pairs.
PRV goes where it’s needed, and where it can best be utilized. The logic is simple. If PRV is needed for the other side of the pair, it goes to liquidity. If there is excess PRV (insufficient volume on the other side of the pair), it goes to vNodes. Earnings from these vNodes go towards paying interest on not just PRV, but also BTC, ETH, etc.
This makes the pool self-sustainable, and better able to support long term liquidity providers.
It is important to note here that all PRV added to the Pool are from users who for whatever reason, choose to grow their funds in Provide, instead of firing up their own Nodes. These users, like you guys, have earned their PRV or bought their PRV.
The number of vNodes associated with Provide is dynamic. If more coins are added to Provide, liquidity and validators grow. If coins are withdrawn, the number of validators will be decreased accordingly.
@Jared yep, we are already experimenting with some governance models. We must be sure that the people who will participate have a long term vision for the project, and will think about how to keep it sustainable for the next 5, 10, 20 years. I am happy that we already have people participating in building this network, but we are not naive. As with all new projects, the majority will be driven more by short term goals. This is not a problem, as long as we take that into account and prepare for it.
Let’s open a new thread to discuss governance ideas, which type of decisions should be opened up to members, and try to find the best way forward.
@Mike_Despo, @fitz_fiat, @anon, @nubex, I hope what I wrote above clears up some concerns. Releasing fixed slots so validators can make a little more right now, does not take into account the main reason for the fixed slots. The network is still under active development: privacy v2, new consensus mechanism, and a new staking cycle is coming very soon. And that’s just within the next couple of months. Much of what we are currently building will ensure the network is more adaptable in different scenarios, and more resilient to say, dips in numbers of Nodes, unavailability of some, etc. This is essential if we are to release the network safely.
The only way to catch up with existing blockchain protocols is to develop 10x faster than they are. Once we lay sufficiently robust groundwork, there is zero reason to keep fixed slots. Please refer to the post below for a better understanding of how we approach decentralization.
From the Pool, 199 Nodes were added.
Yes, all the sensible precautions have been taken. Also, if a provider suspends any of those accounts, those nodes will be simply kicked off from the network.
Guys, I highly appreciate your input. And I am always open to discuss any improvements which bring long term benefits to the network.
I hope you can also try to see the situation from our point of view, and see that if our focus was on money or hype, PRV would already be on the biggest crypto exchanges and we would be a typical crypto project.
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What’s the point of being one of the thousands of other crypto projects? Drum up a quick hype before disappearing?
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What’s the point in having a community with 20k people concerned with “wen moon”, “wen Lambo?” …
Instead, we decided to focus on building, and remain resolute in taking a long-term approach. We are going to provide privacy for the whole blockchain industry and if crypto wins, Incognito wins too.
We’re currently at just 10 months of a 40-year journey (hopefully more). We’re at a very early stage of the network, where we can and should discuss how to make it sustainable and healthy for the long run.
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I appreciate the detailed reply to all of us. I think the main thing that has caused such a stir is the abrupt addition of 199 nodes. If nodes were steadily added over multiple weeks and in small batches with notification to the community that everyone wouldn’t be so upset and perplexed.
Overall, the dev team is doing a wonderful job and we appreciate all of you. Privacy should be a guaranteed way of life not an afterthought.
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I don’t want to sound rude but I am not concerned with the Pool APY and you neither, clearly because you understand it.
However, in the post I replied to there was some misconception about how the supposed decrease of APY could be correlated with the increase of nodes and I I just wanted to make it clear that since the APY hasn’t changed it has nothing to do with it.
No one should be concerned with it, but saying that no one is is plain wrong.
We are a community here and we should help each other. The faster we clear those misconceptions, the faster we, as a community, can focus in the actual matter.
Hi Andrey,
Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with your explanation. As a couple of other members replied, I am also of the opinion that such moves must come with some sort of an advanced communication, that’s all. I am sure most of the long term proponents in the community will understand the rationale, as long as they are informed in a proactive way, rather than being put in a situation where they only get to react. Just my 2 satoshis!
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Since Node pool v1 as initiated with the aim to setup new Nodes and has been used like that, I assumed this was a known thing. Like I said there is nothing secret about it.
This has also been stated when people experienced delays in withdrawing their Node pool deposits. Small amounts will be withdrawn almost instantly, larger amounts can take a little longer in case nodes need to be unstaked for the funds to become available.
It is nothing new, it is just that many people are attracted by the APY, which results in a large fund for Node pool, which results in being able to put a large number of Nodes online. Maybe the people involved were too busy to add nodes gradually, so they did many nodes in one go.
On a personal note, I was kind of surprised by the high number of people who were participating in the Node pool, which basically results in a less decentralized system, while in the past months, so many people screamed to high heaven for decentralization.
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Thanks for the reply @andrey. This clears up a lot for me. For the future, I would propose giving a breakdown anytime you post updates about our node numbers. Up until now, if I saw an update that says our validators grew from let’s say 1800-2000 in the month of July, I saw that as 200 new nodes were personally staked from users. Any PRV that was needed for the node pool interest was being covered by the fixed validator slots. From my understanding, that is not the case. So, in the name of transparency, it might be better if you could have a breakdown of how many nodes are staked by users, how many pnodes aren’t fully staked yet, and how many are run by the core team as part of the node pool. That shows me a more concrete idea of real growth. People who are actually getting the funds to validate on their own, how many people actually purchased a pnode but arent ready to fully stake, and more casual users looking to collect interest in the pool.
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Jamie - I think you’re looking at different audience personas here, and you must be able to differentiate between the two. The people “screaming” about decentralization are different from the people participating in node pools. All belong to our target market, but they are different personas. The project needs both personas though.
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Thanks for taking the time to explain - sorry to “panic”, but it helps if we understand what’s going on.
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You changed my worldview Not really, but no need to discuss here.
No worries, let me know if you need more intel/info on marketing personas and customer journey maps. I do that for a part of my living, and I’m happy to educate interested members of both, the core team and community!
Not exactly my point.
But share anything you feel is valuable for the project. Best in a separate post.
We are open to all ideas.
Already doing that Jamie, in a separate private group. I meant to say I am happy to enlighten you on my point of view about the target audience, customer journeys and personas (only if you’d like though)!
Thanks. No need for that though.
Thank you @andrey for the explanation. It makes it completely clear. I very much speculated the liquidity provided by the one sided PRV, ETH, XRM, BTC, DAI… had to be covered by PRV somehow and I speculated it might just be the dev team doing the majority of the PRV covering. But with everyone dropping provide PRV, vNodes coming to life in order to cover APY makes more sense.
With all the discussion on Nodes earn / selection potential this drives the point that eventually with the network security audited, and firm, the growth of the network will make all nodes quite vital and eventually very profitable. Nice👍
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